Swish Goswami, CEO of TruFan | Top 20 Under 20, 6x Entrepreneur | SSP Interview


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In this week’s episode, we sit down with Swish Goswami, President and Founder of TruFan. Swish (Manu) Goswami, 22, has built a multi-hyphenate career. He is a serial tech entrepreneur (CEO & Founder of Trufan which recently acquired SocialRank), LinkedIn Youth Editor, three-time TEDx speaker (signed with the Speakers Spotlight & The AAT Project), Top 20 under 20 and UN Youth Ambassador.

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The Success Story podcast is focused on speaking to incredible people who have achieved success through trials, tribulations, wins and losses. In each episode we sit down with leaders and mentors.  We document their life, career and stories to help pass those lessons onto others through insights, experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs and everyone in between.

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Swish Goswami, Scott D Clary


Scott D Clary  00:04

The only podcast you need for your business. Let’s do this. Welcome to the sales versus Marketing podcast. I’m your host, Scott. Join me as we explore and demystify the latest trends, technologies and strategies used to achieve massive growth in 10x businesses. I’ll be sitting down with sales, marketing, and business leaders, the SEC what’s worked for them, dispel myths and deliver actionable insights that you can use to ensure repeatable, sustainable, and predictable revenue in your business. Thank you for joining me on another episode of the sales versus Marketing podcast. I’m your host, Scott and today we are sitting down with Swish, go Swami. Now, swish, I’m very excited to speak because he he’s a young entrepreneur, but don’t let his age obviously influence your opinion or what he’s done because his experience has passed. He’s had six started six impact high impact ventures in four different industries. He has been a LinkedIn youth editor. He’s been a fortune 500, consultant to Google and American Express. He has participated in a venture capital firm, founded by Brooklyn Nets point forward Trevor Booker, he has been a un youth ambassador and spoken at UN sessions. He’s been a three time TEDx speaker, and all around just a very impressive individual right now. He’s working on on an organization where he’s founder, CEO, true fan, which we’re going to speak about in a bit. But first, I’m going to throw over switch and just get a sense of his origin story. And, you know, switch switch, like, tell us like, how, how you accomplish this? What motivated you to sort of go out and do all these incredible things and be so successful? And then how did you actually do it?


Swish Goswami  01:58

Yeah,so firstly, yeah, thanks for having me, I really appreciate it. I think kind of two factor in early on, really helped set the tone for my life. One is having a really strong support system that was brutally honest with me about what I like and don’t like. So my brother, for example, is a lawyer right now. Growing up going to college, I wanted to be a lawyer, he was actually the first person to give me a reality check of what being a lawyer even entails, and how 98% of what happens in the TV show suits is actually not what happens, the lights are so low here. And I think secondly, just an innate drop, you know, and something that I don’t know if they can ever be taught, I don’t know if it’s something you’re born with. But coming from Singapore, where the education system was way quicker. When I moved to Canada, when I was eight years old. I just found school very easy. And it gave me a lot of time to do a lot of extracurricular. So I was in dance. I was playing basketball, playing volleyball, and cricket, I was debating and it allowed me to kind of get my interest in various fields and then start this interesting, you know, pattern of curiosity that was just throughout my childhood, anytime I would very interested in something, it’s just thinking about it, I was actually going to go and try it out and do it. So that innate drive that curiosity would definitely the second thing that’s brought me to where I am right now.


Scott D Clary  03:17

So I want to I want to learn that after. So that is that makes a lot of sense. And I think that the strong support system is probably what has enabled you to be successful. Definitely at the beginning. Because that mentorship because a lot of people I think, may not have that if they’re if especially if their family isn’t like a an entrepreneurial go getter type family. But so what’s coming I want to just understand that coming out of you know, okay, so you are a go getter you are you are motivated. You you’ve had six companies, obviously, I’m assuming there’s been a lot of struggle, a lot of stress. Yeah. Like, I know, God forbid, like one company that like, you know, like, lose all their hairs. You’re one so like, so how, and also outside of just building a company? What motivated you to build out your brand? Because companies one thing, brand is everything else that makes our speaker but what you’re doing now?


Swish Goswami  04:13

Yes, I mean, ever, ever since I was in high school, I was interested in business. One of the first companies I created was actually part of a program called Junior Achievement. It’s a Canadian wide program, helping high school students to come together, learn how to build a business and then sell product within six months. And we built a custom lapel pins company. We sold about $27,000 worth of pins in six months became southwest Alberta’s company the year we were nominated for Canada’s Company of the Year. And that was a really awesome way for me to show my parents that the lawyer engineer doctor might not be right for me. My parents weren’t entrepreneurial. My brother definitely wasn’t entrepreneurial. I didn’t come from a family that encouraged entrepreneurship. But I was also blessed that I didn’t come from a family that discouraged entrepreneurship. So there were just neutral. They didn’t know what to think about it. But when they saw, you know, alright, cool six months the program, he did really well, the company did really well, maybe there’s something there. In high school, I started a nonprofit called candidate think leveraged my debate network, which was fairly global, because I was debating for Team Canada to get these people from various countries to go home and start conferences, and to take all the proceeds from those conferences and put it into a youth fund that would only fund youth startups. And then pass that I think at first and second year university, my mind just went to a bunch of ideas. And honestly, some of those ideas failed. You know, I wanted to start a food distribution app called FoodShare, with Quinn, one of my best friends at the University of Toronto in first year, and we built out a prototype of the application and it didn’t work because of regulation, it’s legal to make money off donated food. And secondly, just we didn’t have the  focus, I think that you need to try to get an app like that to get off the ground. So it wasn’t like everything that I’ve started had just become gold. I’d actually say it’s quite the contrary. But I think especially in the last two years, a true fan, the biggest thing that we’ve learnt, and by we I mean, my co founder and I and the rest of the team now that’s 13 people strong, we’ve really learned to just hone in on our skills and focus in on what makes us special, and the best part about it. And we cannot do that on a daily basis because of the fact that we have other people to count upon and trust. I forgot the second part of your question. So could you repeat?


Scott D Clary  06:28

Now I’m thinking I’m thinking. I’m actually that’s something that I shouldn’t do. I hate compound questions because of this exact reason. But I got excited. So I apologize. No, no, no worries. No worries. I, you know, I actually can’t remember what I asked, but I was as you were speaking. And oh, I just wanted to actually I wanted to speak about true fan. And but I wanted to sort of line it up. So you do a lot of speaking engagements. So you, you and you spoken I guess well up to what I’ve researched three times at TEDx. I don’t know if you’ve done more, but you’ve done world. Dialogue,


Swish Goswami  07:02

three, three is good enough for me.


Scott D Clary  07:06

Whenever you speak, there’s obviously like a passion behind the things that you deliver to audiences. And obviously, there’s something that that’s there that people can relate to. So has that what is that? What is what is your topic that you love to sort of speak about? And is that influence what you’re working on? Now? I don’t know. I’m just this is


Swish Goswami  07:25

totally. And this actually kind of made me remember your other part of the question, too, which was why the why the impetus to start a personal brands? That’s right, that’s right. I’ll tie that into the other. I think the reason why I wanted to create a branded wallet, because I realized that whether you want one or not, you have a personal brand. And that’s very important. When someone searches you up, they are immediately going to get some results back. And I would like those results to be as favorable and positive towards me. And I’d like those results to hopefully be a summation of what I’ve done and what I’m good at. So that’s honestly why I think the later reason and the reason that I love continuing to share content on a platform like LinkedIn, or a platform like Instagram, it’s just the community building aspect. I find that to be very rewarding, it can definitely tie back towards truth. And we have had some people in my community who’ve come on as employees as interns as clients. We’ve also had people that are championing truth and and telling their friends about it. And it’s been great from a branding perspective to have that sort of community aspect to our company. And that really starts with individuals that truth and starting to share their life and tidbits of their life on social media. I think in terms of speaking, obviously, coming from a debate background, I loved speaking. And once we stopped debating, you definitely want to find another way to get on stage and tell people what you believe. And speaking with that outlet for me. So right now I mainly speak on two topics. Number one is I love talking about the future of marketing, and talking about customer engagement and one to one marketing and how certain paradigms of marketing like influencer marketing or paid advertising are changing, and where the direction of those trends are going. The second thing is I love talking about mental health. And this is a talk that I’ve given it fair a fair amount of universities now across the continent, is talking about how to be able to become a professional, but still manage your mental health and still be in check. And that’s a very important topic for me. Especially because of the people around me and some of the people that have faced mental health illnesses and just, you know, the feeling of being helpless and not being able to talk to them and understand what they’re going through. That’s something that I definitely wouldn’t want anyone to go through.


Scott D Clary  09:42

I think that I want to just have a quick section, very, very brief on on the mental health aspect because I think the future of marketing will sort of dovetail into true fan. So for for the mental health of individuals within organizations, entrepreneurs What what is the high level messaging? Like the true takeaways that can help people understand that a high performing individual needs to focus on the mental health? And what what sort of avenues can they take to sort of make sure that they they have an elder to engage with, or I don’t know, all the nuances. But I really just want to let you know what I mean.


Swish Goswami  10:25

I mean, I think the biggest takeaways from any of the talks that I give mental health are this one, everyone has mental health, I think, you know, obviously, there’s a stigma still associated towards it, it’s definitely gotten better in the last five to 10 years. But the fact is that every single person can relate to this topic, whether or not you have an ailment. So you don’t need to be a schizophrenic, you don’t need to have Bipolar in order to be able to empathize with mental health. And in order to understand it, I do believe that mental health is on a spectrum, and it goes from one side to another side. And on any given day, you will fluctuate on that spectrum, you’re not always going to be ultra happy, you’re not always going to be very sad. And so it’s worth noting that you can be a part of this conversation. And you should be. The second thing is to note that in a world where we’re inundated with a lot of technology, and there’s so many apps online for you to be able to meditate, you don’t need to go to that extent, I think in order to be able to check up on your mental health, I think even taking 1015 minutes aside every Sunday to go for a walk or to just sit at a table with no agenda of what to do. But just think about how your week went, those reflections that you’ll do every week, every day, every month for yourself will really go a long way. So I think the standard that I’m trying to get people to live up to isn’t that high, you don’t need to download com and be an active user on it. You just need to find time to check in with yourself.


Scott D Clary  11:55

I think that’s incredibly important for especially entrepreneurs, when they’re, you know, essentially going through a lot of things on their own. But also people within organizations that may feel like again, that stigma that they you know, just because I’m stressed that word doesn’t mean I have to go look for help or whatnot there. I think people should proactively monitor their their mental health and well being. I guess we’re always on. And it’s very difficult, you know, so yeah, yeah. Okay, let’s, let’s speak about the second favorite topic, which is probably why true fan exists. Yeah. Your marketing, either paradigm shifts, influencer marketing, social media, like the amount of access that we have. So what what spawned a true fan? And what is true fan, let’s walk through that. Let’s walk through what is true fan and how it came to be?


Swish Goswami  12:44

Sure. So what is true fan true fan is a social intelligence platform. That’s how we branded it. And I’ll explain what that means a bit later. But we’re social intelligence platform that helps brands engage with their grassroots communities. So those grassroots communities are made up off their brand advocates are super fans, but they’re also made up of micro influencers that are following you. They’re engaging with your content, and they have local influence. So instead of finding people that are not connected with you, they’re not aligned with your product or service, but they have a million followers on it. And I believe that if you go after truth in and you buy our product and go and power, your end consumers that have local influence, you’re likely going to be better off and those engagements will be cheaper, those engagements will yield better results. That’s what true fan is all about. The original impetus to start, the idea came about two years ago, the first iteration of what we wanted to build with just a simple platform to help any celebrity or any brand come on and just find their top fans so that they could reward them. So if you’re releasing an album, you should be able to give a sneak peek of that album to your top 1015 fans. If you have a product coming out, you should be able to get all your user testing done through your top brand advocates on where I think we’ve gone towards the end, especially with the acquisition we made three months ago, we’ve become a very all encompassing audience analytics platform that doesn’t just have capabilities of being able to help you find the top 20% of your audience. But we now have the ability to be able to take your entire following and give you the tools to be able to filter that following and find an audience that you want to market to whether it’s based on location, the keywords that your audience has, in their bio, how many followers they have, or the verified, there’s a number of filters that we give you to be able to slice and dice your audience.


Scott D Clary  14:34

Have you ever you know Seth Godin is correct?


Swish Goswami  14:37

Yep. I actually chatted with Seco twice. So he’s Yeah,


Scott D Clary  14:43

right. Building your core tribe when you’re so that sounds like you’re you’re you’re building like a SaaS product and like you’re almost like codifying some of the concepts that he speaks about a lot and like he’s like a marketing genius like so I totally But I don’t see a lot of companies doing this, if any,


Swish Goswami  15:03

Yeah,yes. And a lot of a lot of brand. We we, you know, quote, My co founder and I attended a conference in California recently, and it was called the brand we conference. And we heard a lot of brand managers from Fortune 500 come up and say, We want to empower our customers, we want to, we want to be able to activate our own audience and not have to rely on external influencers. But what we found so ironic is that’s what we believe two years ago, the industry hadn’t tilted towards that direction yet. And now we’re starting to see this trend towards finding organic influencers, people that are directly aligned with you, they don’t charge as much they have higher engagement rates, and they’re already aligned with your brand, because they already buy from it. That’s the trend that we’re seeing right now. But I definitely think the problem that true fan is trying to target the ball as well. You know, two years ago, we had a simple problem. We were like customer loyalty doesn’t go two ways. And a lot of brands aren’t factoring in social media data when they think about customer loyalty. But now the problem that we’ve identified, It’s way bigger. We’ve identified a problem within paid advertising and within influencer marketing, and it’s what we believe it’s a bubble that is going to explode.


Scott D Clary  16:16

So So walk walk me through that problem that you’ve discovered, and why is it Why is it such an issue that’s going to eventually, like explode?


Swish Goswami  16:25

Yeah,yeah. So paid advertising has four key problems. And by paid advertising, I mean, Instagram, Google Facebook ads. The first problem is ad fraud. So click farms domain laundering are leading to a lot of money being wasted, about 50 billion $250 billion in the next five years is going to be lost due to ad fraud. Second big issue is that ad blockers are on the rise. So my co founder and I both have our ad blockers on on YouTube, about 40% of North American YouTube users have ad blockers on and that number is only rising globally. The third is that brands have no clue where their ads are being put on, you know, and overrides. And, and JP Morgan last year had issues where their ads were being put on top of rates as to YouTube content. And that’s a big issue, right? Imagine waking up as a PR manager and being like, Well, I had no control on this. But now we have a PR crisis to deal with. And then the fourth and final reason on why paid advertising in my opinion at the bubble that will burst is we think there’s a difference between selection effect and advertising effect. So I’ll give you an example to describe this. Imagine that we were all in a pizza store. And you know, you and I were employees at the pizza store. I we were told Alright, the the person who sells the most is going to win this month challenge. You decided to go outside the store and start trying to give coupons that way. Instead of doing that I beat you by staying inside the store and giving coupons to people that were in line already. That’s literally what paid advertising it is. There’s no way to truly understand whether advertisements are going towards people that didn’t already have buying intent. So the ads that you’re showing is Puma to shoe lovers. How do you know that you’re actually hitting an audience that wasn’t already going to buy from you. That’s something that brand marketers right now cannot, they cannot figure out. And it’s a big issue behind why a lot of times they’re paid advertising spend goes to waste. So we think like this is all that and obviously a lot of that money is going to ship towards influencer marketing, the influencer marketing industry will become an $11 billion industry. By the end of the year. It’s only growing growing every single year. But influencer marketing in the way we’ve done previously, it’s also problematic. My co founder and I noted that a lot of times brands have been spending frivolously on influencers that have fake engagement, they have fake followers, just because they have the million followers, people will pay them. And the big metric that a lot of brands are trying to look for is impression views. They’re not trying to look for conversion. So we think there’s a much better model of influencer marketing that you can do. And that’s through our platform by empowering your own audience made up of superfan brand advocates and micro influencers, that the likely yield better results in the long term.


Scott D Clary  19:15

Now, do you still see? Because that is always that that’s always the issue with influencer marketing, right? It’s not measurable to the same extent as paid. But now you’re saying well, what’s the point of measuring paid? If it’s, if it’s already going towards people that are already buying? Yeah. How do you sell for like even even so I totally understand where you’re going with true fan with with like, your niching down into these micro influencers, with like, hyper targeted, like great engagement. But how do you remove? I guess the aversion to throwing money in and still not seeing like how do you know that they’re authentic? They’re genuine, even smaller?


Swish Goswami  19:53

Great question. So there’s a couple of answers to that A is we actually have added in an element of measurement to be able to live measure before and after campaign how it did. Um, so, first of all, when you come onto our platform, you’re actually able to see every single profile and you’re able to see how many fake followers they have, we actually have like an accuracy rate now about 98%. We did that through the previous founders of social rank. They bought a bunch of fake accounts, they built out an ML program to be able to analyze, which were fake followers and which were not. So for us, the first thing right off the bat, and you know, you can test these people before you even reach out to them to see how many fake followers they have. And to also really understand, alright, does this person have an audience that I’m not already targeting, you can do that you can take their audience, you can take your audience, and you can do an overlap, to see how many people overlap between this influencers, audience and my brand’s profile. And if it’s a lot, maybe you don’t want to work with them, because you’re not going to reach a new audience by working with them. So you can validate an influencer, even before a campaign starts. After the campaign is done, you can measure the results of that campaign by going back and looking at that same overlap. Because hopefully, if that campaign was done, well, they are going to be some people that trickle over from that influencers following into yours. And that’s something that’s important to measure, especially over time. So a key example that we always talk about is stripe, and LeBron James, they signed a partnership a few years ago, it’s worth noting that we can actually go back to 2018 and see what the brand overlap is between LeBron James, his followers and Sprite with the Think about 200,000 people. Now, let’s take a look at it in 2020 has that number grown have sprite truly got a benefit from having LeBron James, as a brand? Ambassador? That’s something that we can quantify on our platform.


Scott D Clary  21:48

Now, so this is this is all great. And I I believe in what you’re saying, but what about the paid ad platforms that the influencers are on that are constantly trying to take, in theory, like you hear about the algorithm changing? You know, Instagram is no longer showing the same organic reach to an influencers, following as it once did? And, you know, the conspiracy theories that they want to take some of that ad revenue and turn it into paid ads on on Facebook, and Instagram and whatnot. So all these companies have like billions of dollars. But influencers are just these small little sole proprietors, mostly? How do they how do they combat like the changing algorithms to stay relevant? What like, what do you see the future of that sort of dichotomy looking like?


Swish Goswami  22:35

Yeah, I think, look, there are going to be a bunch of influencers that truly care about the algorithm, I think the ones that are going to win in the long term are gonna have a key focus beyond just the algorithm on their community. Like, I think it goes a long way, when you can go out of your way and reward your community, make them feel loved, and make them truly, truly believe in the message that you’re sharing. So the number one example of someone that I think has done this really well in my David doper, you take a look at, it doesn’t matter what way the Instagram algorithm goes, his videos are still going to go viral, his photos are still going to have millions of likes, and millions of people commenting, and the reason why people have fallen in love with who he is, they find them authentic. And more importantly, he actually cares about his community, he reaches out to them, He rewards them with merchandise, he spends time doing live stream and answering their questions. These are the people that I think are generally going to win. And that’s what I’ve actually to an effect on on LinkedIn as well. Obviously, it’s not such a big sale as a David dobrik. But the reason why LinkedIn is still a big platform for me, despite three years of algorithm changes, is because I’ve invested a lot of time in talking to my community, whether it’s talking to them on the phone on a five minute call, or talking to them in the comments where I still to date try to reply to every single comment that I get.


Scott D Clary  23:53

So do you think that that that mentality like the the trying to play the algorithm is going to be essentially the death of fake influencers and influencers? If there could be like one lesson for people that are trying to sort of take their their brand, their influencer brand into the next, I guess, you know, in the future of marketing, it would be to, to truly build out and be authentic with their community. That’s, that’s really the only way to win.


Swish Goswami  24:19

I really, I really think it is because I think three things, you know, building a brand to three things, it comes down to content, community and collaboration, collaboration, something some people can do, some people can, it depends where you are, if you’re in LA, you’re probably gonna be able to find other influencers to collaborate with do videos with take photos with write articles with whatever if you’re in, I don’t know, Missouri or whatever, like or St. Louis, it might be a little more difficult compared to LA to be able to find those people. Content is something that can differentiate you as well. But the way that we’re, you know, we’re inundated again with like so many pieces of content every single day. You know, as a consumer we’re we’re borrowing Did with sponsored posts on top of sponsored posts, it’s really hard these days to stick out unless you’re Mr. Beast, and you’re able to put $500,000 into a video doing a crazy stunt that nobody’s ever done before. That’s a really hard way to differentiate yourself as well. So I do think that the golden eggs and his community, I think the way to be able to differentiate yourself is to have a very strong focus to who are my top fans? How do I mobilize them, activate them and make them feel valued for their loyalty? That’s what I think comes like building a brand community building even true fan really comes down to.


Scott D Clary  25:37

Now do you have? Because I would love to I would love to understand like some of like case studies a true fan has worked on that has shown measurable success. Can you speak to some things like that, that could really drive the point home for people that totally first of all, are they may not be comfortable with influencer marketing yet? Or if they are they don’t understand, or have ever been, have any experience with doubling down on marketing to like their own following?


Swish Goswami  26:02

Yes, I’ll give you some examples. Some of these examples were also examples of how customers in the last three or four years, we’re using social rank, the platform that we bought out in November. So you know, the first of the Red Cross about two, three years ago, the Red Cross use their platform, to be able to find volunteers that could come out and help them with their initiative, they went online, they found people that were using the hashtag, or were mentioning the Red Cross and posts. And then we’re reaching out to those people and asking them to join their volunteer base. The second example on this and the current client of ours is Netflix. Netflix, he’s currently using our platform, not even for marketing, but just to make strategic business decisions by understanding. Alright, we’re what are the main audience that is watching Orange is the new block what is the main audience that’s watching Stranger Things, and let’s understand what sort of programming we can put out next, that might be able to either cater to these audiences or cater to an entirely different audience that we haven’t tapped into. And this is very vital, especially because of the fact that platforms like Netflix are also trying to cater to an international audience. Now, they’re trying to build original programming, not just in North America, but in other places like India, where the entire cultural paradigm is very different in those countries. The third example I’d bring up is the United talent agency, still an existing customer. And they use it for being able to find brand affinity between their talent and brands that they’re trying to work with. So one of their key talent is Chris Pratt. If Chris Pratt tomorrow wanted to work with a watch brand, they could come onto our platform, they could run cube blow watches, they could run Chris props account, find the brand overlap very easily. And see, Alright, is there a big overlap, if there’s a big overlap, but let’s go to E blow and tell them that this is a seamless partnership. If there isn’t a big overlap, that still could be spun in a good way, because we could go to cube flow and say, Hey, do you want to reach out to an audience that genuinely doesn’t follow cube flow right now. So it’s kind of a win win for them. If there’s a big similarity, even if there isn’t a big similarity, they can spin it using data in a way that can make that deal happen a lot quicker.


Scott D Clary  28:09

I like that a lot. It makes a lot of sense. And I understand what you’re doing. I wanted to I wanted to sort of tee this up with a couple like insight questions through your experience. But before I get into that, I just wanted to open the floor for anything in terms of like future of marketing, or what true fans doing? Is there anything that we didn’t cover that you wanted to


Swish Goswami  28:28

know? I think I honestly, I’m very impressed with myself normally, I’m not very good at describing what we do at that level. But I’m pretty appreciate it.


Scott D Clary  28:39

My pleasure.It was really good. It makes a ton of sense. And and I’ve never I’ve never heard of a tech that does what true fan does and I don’t like to be so evangelistic about products or specific companies on the podcast, but I think it’s very relevant because it’s it’s so different from everything else that I’ve seen out there. Like there’s a lot of influencer marketing firms, agencies, but not at this level. Like really, in all seriousness like that, do what you do. So it’s very cool to hear like how companies are actually using it. Um, you’ve been a six, six time, why is it six time entrepreneurs that more? You’ve done a


Swish Goswami  29:15

FedEx? Yeah, again, as I said at the very beginning, some of those did not work out. But very happy with the work that I’ve done in the last three years with awareables company being able to build done with my roommate in New York who had started the account in 2013. And then now a true fan.


Scott D Clary  29:35

So so my question to you is, sometimes ask the question, like, Would you do it again, but you’ve done it six times. That’s a stupid question that so but I would ask it again. Yeah, I know, right? Like what’s, what’s the next venture? Give it like another year? But I’ll ask another question. And this is a very vanilla question, but I like asking it because everyone interprets the question differently in a really lay into it. So it’s good to get some good insight for people that are sort of younger in their career, one lesson that you would tell yourself younger self, a professional lesson that would help you get to where you are a little bit quicker.


Swish Goswami  30:08

Yeah, um, so you’re looking for like my main? Yeah, let’s do it. You can advice.


Scott D Clary  30:15

Yeah. Some advice, some some advice you tell your younger self?


Swish Goswami  30:19

Yeah, I think you I mean, if I was looking back at like the 18 year old switch,


Scott D Clary  30:23

you’re not old. So it’s


Swish Goswami  30:26

four years ago, I would, I would, I would tell him first of all, don’t don’t sweat the small stuff. Um, I think this is something that my brother told me and his words are still kind of rang a bell in my ear. Because a lot of times I think I freak out by being like, Oh, my God, there’s so much to do. And I need to do this quickly. And like you feel like you’re in a race with not only yourself, maybe your friends, maybe society, maybe what people are telling you to do. Just don’t sweat the small stuff. You know, I think every single person is on their own path. Every single person hopefully will find success at their own given time. Don’t rush that process. Enjoy that process and take away as much as you can from it. I think number two is my another piece of advice that my brother gave me is don’t eat the marshmallow. And what that means is, there are going to be a lot of distractions that come up. And this is something that I faced two years ago, it’s something I faced last year, something I even face right now. But I think I’ve become better now at putting the distractions aside and really trying to focus in. So when you get to a certain level, when you start making moves, you’re always going to have opportunities around you that you can capitalize upon. So it’s worth noting that there’s always a time to say no, there’s always a time to say yes, and being able to prioritize the current projects you’re working on, especially if you really believe in them is a skill that you will need to develop. And then the third and final thing is an advice that I think has very much affected my life, which is your net worth is your network. focus as much of your time not just on building your business, but on trying to build up a strong network. The most organic way in my opinion of doing that is by interviewing people. So if you want to start a podcast, recorded even on GarageBand and export SoundCloud, do it in the most scrappy way if need be, you don’t need to go out and buy $200 mics right off the bat. If you want to write articles, go on to medium go on to LinkedIn and find time to interview other people. I think 99% of people love talking about themselves. I’m exhibit A, it is easier, I think to be able to reach out to someone and get them to say yes to an interview, then get them to say yes to a coffee. So instead of taking time away from someone, I think it’s always great being able to create the foundation of a relationship upon you giving value to them by interviewing them. So that’s definitely something I would do if I was looking to grow my network is interview people. Follow up with people, make sure you value your network, make sure you’re not just trying to reach the next person, next person, the next person on invest time and really caring for your network.


Scott D Clary  33:04

I love it. Those are all those are all very good takeaways. Thank you. I appreciate that. Those are I like that. Yeah, there was no limit on the amount of advice. So I I’m glad you went to all those. And then the last question that I always asked, because I always find that people that are high performance individuals in a company, entrepreneur, whatever, they always have sources of knowledge. So it could be podcasts. audibles could be mentors, people they love listening to what what have you learned from or what are you learning from now that you think would be relevant for someone else to look into?


Swish Goswami  33:38

Yeah, I think I’m not a big reader. Sadly, I however, am a big watcher. I don’t know if that’s the word I’m but I watch a lot of YouTube videos, I watch a lot of movies, I consume a lot of content that way. Um, I think the thing that I’m learning right now that perhaps I wasn’t learning as much two three years ago, is I think appreciating appreciating your your surroundings. I think that’s a big thing that my co founder, especially Tommy, he’s from the West Coast, he’s from Vancouver, they have water and mountains and all sorts of beautiful things there. We don’t tend to have that I think in Toronto, no matter where I grew up teeth. So it’s been neat to being able to travel with him and understand, you know, how to be able to go outside and take a take a take a quick 10 minute walk to reset, you know, being able to understand your surroundings and appreciate it. I think now more than ever, given the fact that we’re all quarantine, we’re starting to even appreciate it more. Because we take things like that, I think for granted. And in moments like this where you’re kind of forced to stay inside make you realize how blessed you were to just be able to go outside and, you know, sit down for dinner with your friends and stuff like that, hopefully won’t be undervalued going forward.


Scott D Clary  34:54

Yeah, definitely. And I think that also is something that, you know, we sort of touched on it before the mental health and always being in front of a screen and always being on like simple things that I think our parents were more accustomed to not always having a second screen in front of them. And grandparents, like we have to sort of bring those things back a little bit. Because, listen, it’s so easy to be on your phone or computer like 24/7 right now. So


Swish Goswami  35:19

very true. Very true.


Scott D Clary  35:22

That those were all the questions I had. Man, I really appreciate the chat. I think we we really uncovered a lot, especially about true fan and some of the insights you had. I think the only thing that I wanted to know was if people want to get in touch with you, or true fan, where would they go?


Swish Goswami  35:36

Definitely, if you’re interested in true fan, you can go on our website, true fan Tru fa n.io. If you wanted to reach out to us directly, just reach out over email to info at true fan.io. And then for me, Twitter is probably the easiest way to reach me, I think, LinkedIn, I kind of get a bit overwhelmed with my inbox sometimes. And Instagram, I don’t really check my message requests as often. So Twitter where I don’t really have much of following and I still do check it for the news. I think it’s the best way to reach me, you can reach me at coach Swish GOSW is H and even if you decide to reach out to me on other platforms, if you just say, Hey, I listened to this podcast and really liked it or whatever, or I hated it, you can even tell me that that’s not a problem. I will


Scott D Clary  36:23

do that too. Because then I’ll get some good feedback. Yeah, exactly.


Swish Goswami  36:27

But no, I will reach out. I will like, you know, it might take me a bit of time, but I 100% will reach out because I do try to get back to people as soon as possible.


Scott D Clary  36:36

I really appreciate it and like, you know, it’s, you’ve done a lot and you’re very busy, very busy person, but it is you know, you sort of practice what you preach and even when I just you know cold email that a nowhere I’ve seen your stuff on LinkedIn for a long time. And I appreciate what you’re doing. You were you were very willing to jump on. So I really do appreciate that man. Thank you.


Swish Goswami  36:56

No worries. Thank you for having me. This is great. Love the conversation.


Scott D Clary  36:59

Yeah, no, likewise. Alright, so that’s all I got. So this has been another episode of the sales versus marketing podcast. As always, if you haven’t already, please like, subscribe, comment and rate the podcast, share it with your friends, family, peers, co workers, any ratings fine as long as it includes five stars and download and stream this podcast wherever you can download podcasts. You can also catch it on YouTube as well. So as always, have a great week have a productive week and we’ll speak again soon. Bye now.



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