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About The Guest
Best-selling author Phillip Stutts comes from the cutthroat world of political and corporate marketing and has been described as a “marketing maverick reshaping business success using the secret formula that gets presidents elected.” Contributing to 1,407 election victories, including three U.S. Presidential victories and working with multiple Fortune 200 companies, Phillip plays the game of political and corporate marketing on the highest level, battling it out with fierce competition, multi-billion-dollar budgets, and a win or die mentality.
He is the founder and CEO of Win BIG Media (a corporate marketing agency) and Founder/Executive Chairman of Go BIG Media (a political marketing ad firm). Phillip has spoken in front of 50 million+ people in his career, he’s repped by VaynerSpeakers (Gary Vaynerchuk’s speaker bureau) and Keppler Speakers (largest speaker’s bureau in the U.S.) and made more than 350 national media appearances including ESPN, CBS, FOX BUSINESS, FOX NEWS, MSNBC, and CNN.
Phillip has been interviewed by renowned business, entertainment, and health leaders including: Anderson Cooper, Gary Vaynerchuk, Peter Diamandis, James Altucher, Michael Hyatt, Adam Carolla, Dr. Drew Pinsky, and Dr. Steven Gundry.
- 00:00 – Phillips’s story.
- 17:12 – How to consistently have the best strategies on every platform.
- 20:44 – Lessons learnt from the political marketing arena that can apply to b2c/b2b marketing.
- 26:58 – What is the best way to test political marketing.
- 27:51 – Why marketing agencies should work themselves out of a job.
- 29:52 – What does comparatising mean?
- 38:29 – How to focus your energy while managing multiple businesses.
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What is the Success Story Podcast?
On this podcast, you’ll find interviews, Q&A, keynote presentations & conversations on sales, marketing, business, startups and entrepreneurship.
The podcast is hosted by entrepreneur, business executive, author, educator & speaker, Scott D. Clary.
Scott will discuss some of the lessons he’s learned over his own career, as well as have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, notable figures and politicians. All who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas and insights.
He sits down with leaders and mentors and unpacks their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs and everyone in between.
Machine Generated Transcript
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Phillip Stutts, Scott D Clary
Scott D Clary 00:00
Welcome to success story the most useful podcast in the world. I’m your host Scott D. Clary. This success story podcast is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network the HubSpot Podcast Network has incredible podcast like the gain grow retain podcast the podcast is hosted by Jeff Bruns, Bach and J Nathan. Now gain grow and retain is built to inspire SAS and technology leaders who are facing the day to day challenges of scaling hosts, Jeff and Jay share conversations about growing and scaling subscription businesses with a customer first approach. If any of these topics sound interesting to you, you’re gonna like the podcast creating more brand advocates SAS as a predominant model for business, customer success at scale, or the challenges of integrating new tools with CSM some of these topics pique your interest, you’re gonna love the podcast, you’re gonna love gain grow, retain, go check it out wherever you get your podcast. Remember, gain grow, retain on the HubSpot Podcast Network. Hey, everyone, just take a second and thank the sponsor of today’s episode, longshot leaders. It’s a podcast that reached out to me that I just started listening to because I absolutely love them. It’s hosted by my good friend Michael Stein. It’s edgy, it’s different. He interviews absolutely everyone under the sun and speaks through their journey. unpacks the biggest obstacles they’ve had to overcome to find success in whatever it is they’ve done in their life. So he interviews Academy Award winners, ex cons, Holocaust survivors, sports heroes, you name it, he interviews them, and he himself also has a really interesting background. So Michael Stein’s a host. He’s an entrepreneur, writer, actor, filmmaker, he’s also a stand up comedian. So he kind of puts that all into the interview. And then he gets into the how the why the secrets of why people do what they do. It’s really cool. I actually love the show. He reached out to sponsor but I don’t take any sponsorship space for podcasts unless I actually like them. Listen to myself, so I listened to it highly recommend you check it out. That is long shot leaders with Michael Stein. Today, my guest is Phillip Stutts. Now Philip is a best selling author. He comes from the cutthroat world of political and corporate marketing. He has been described as a marketing Maverick reshaping business success using the secret formula that gets presidents elected he has contributed to 1407 election victories, including three US presidential victories and working with multiple fortune 200 companies. Phillip plays the game of political and corporate marketing on the highest level, battling it out with fierce competition, multi billion dollar budgets, and a win or die mentality is the founder and CEO of win big media. They are a corporate marketing agency. He’s the founder and Executive Chairman of go big media, a political marketing ad firm. He has spoken in front of 50 million plus people over his career. He’s repped by Vayner speakers Gary Vaynerchuk speaking Bureau and Kepler speaker is the largest speaker’s bureau in the United States. He has been on more than 350 and has made more than 350 national media appearances including ESPN, CBS, Fox Business, Fox News, MSNBC and CNN. He has also been interviewed by renowned business entertainment and health leaders including Anderson Cooper, Gary Vaynerchuk, Peter Diamandis, James ALTSCHULER, Michael Hyatt, Adam Carolla, Dr. Drew Pinsky, Dr. Steven Gundry, and many more. And now myself, he’s written multiple bestsellers, including his latest book titled, The undefeated marketing system, how to grow your business, and build your audience using the secret formula that elects presidents which hit top 65 out of 6 million titles on Amazon. So what did we speak about? Well, firstly, we spoke about the origin story of Philip Stutts, and how he always has the best possible strategies on every platform, be it in the political arena or in the corporate marketing arena. We spoke about the best ways to test marketing strategies, as well as some lessons that he’s learned from testing political marketing strategies. We spoke about how he decides what to focus his energy on, while being hugely successful. How does he build a brand? How does he still run two simultaneous agencies, one helping presidents win elections, one helping CEOs and fortune 200 reach their target customers. We spoke about some things that he’s learned from his time in political marketing, and how those lessons can apply to consumer marketing that maybe the average marketer isn’t aware of. We also spoke about compare retiring, what does that mean? He wrote an entire book about it. And then lastly, as a marketing agency owner, we spoke about why a marketing agency’s only job should be to work themselves out of a job and what does that mean in terms of a business owner, or even a political candidate looking for a marketing agency to work with, so let’s jump right into it. This is Philip Stutz. He is the founder and CEO of win big media and go big media
Phillip Stutts 05:08
man, so I grew up in Alabama, and I was the first generation Scott of add kids, right? I’m 47 now. And so in the 1980s, I was diagnosed with a DD there wasn’t ADHD, the age hadn’t come out yet. So this is how early it is. And I was put on Ritalin. And, you know, like a lot of good entrepreneurs, I have a DD and but ultimately, I only really cared about two things in life. And really, I couldn’t ultimately pursue a career unless it was in one of those two things. And one was a college football. So for your Canadian audience, that may not resonate, but talking to
Scott D Clary 05:52
Mr. American, and I can’t stand it football anyway.
Phillip Stutts 05:57
It’s just football, right? It’s college football, right? It’s, but I’m five 950 pounds. So that was never going to be part of my future. But I also was constant. I was fascinated by political campaigns, how people got elected. And I didn’t give two shits about tax policy or environmental policy. I was fascinated by how a politician ran a campaign to win and get into office. And I was like, highschool fascinated. And so when I got out of college, I did an internship on a presidential campaign. And I just I got addicted to it. It’s like working on political campaigns, when the most addictive things you can ever do in your life, because you’re working 24/7 your pot, you know, passionately pursuing something that you think will benefit society. It’s pretty purpose driven, obviously. And so, you know, that was sort of what I said, Well, I’m an add kid, I got to put stuff in, I got to put my time into something I’m really passionate about. And that’s how I found it. You know, I went on to work on when, at this point, as of November of 2021, we I’ve been a part of 1433 a Latin American election victories. Three presidential wins. And then about five years ago, I just, you know, I had one of those. How old are you, Scott? I’m 31. So I’m Yo man, you’re a young guy. So yes, sir. This is a four warning. So then at about 38 to 42. Almost everybody, you know, wakes up and goes, it’s like they’ve been going up this roller coaster their whole life. And it’s like a sky’s the limit, look at the sky. And then all of a sudden about 38 or 42, you kind of crest on top of that rollercoaster. And then you start looking down and you go, Oh, shit, that’s all there is. Like, is this all just going to be for the rest of my life?
Scott D Clary 07:51
Because you kill it early. And then you try to figure out what to do next, right? or years.
Phillip Stutts 07:55
Or even worse, you don’t kill it, and you go shit, I’m stuck in this place. If I don’t change, right, and a lot of men, I mean, this happens to women happens to men, but a lot of men that I know, cheated on their spouses in this period of time. They bought motorcycles. I just decided I was going to go start business life crisis. So I started a political ad agency in 2015. We’ve grown that from I invested I put 100 grand in my money. We’ve now we’re now at 60 million in revenue. And then about two years later, I went well, that was so fun. Why don’t I go start a corporate marketing agency. And the ignorance of an entrepreneur is a beautiful thing and also a massive headache because nothing’s easy, right? When you start, you think it is you think this idea is going to be so easy. But we’ve we’ve now run this corporate marketing agency, applying the political principles behind getting presidents elected into corporate clients. We work with Fortune 200 companies, we work with startups, we work with small businesses. And we’re it’s rooted in sort of the in my manifesto was the book called The undefeated marketing system, how to grow your business and build your audience using the secret formula that elects presidents. And it lays out sort of I had this theory that applying political a political marketing system to corporations would grow their their business. And just because I had a theory didn’t mean it was true. I had to go out and prove it. And so I spent years working with businesses. And you know, I found this niche in the marketplace got which is almost every business owner I’ve talked to in the last 10 years has said one thing they have fired multiple marketing agencies in the lifespan of their business, that there are over promise under deliver, they don’t look out for the business. They are all making money. They throw them into some it’s like throwing them into buying a hot stock and then the stock tanked Like, put all your money into this platform and this platform and when they didn’t work, and no one can figure out anything, and then ultimately they go, my God, I’m locked into an eight month contract with these guys that can’t get out of it. And it’s just a clusterfuck. And I just went, I’m gonna change the rules of marketing, I’m going to create two things that are going to that are the biggest sort of vulnerabilities in the marketplace. One, I’m going to create a marketing company that plays Moneyball, and doesn’t sit around arbitrarily choose what marketing tactics should be used. We’re going to use real data, and we’re going to guarantee success for our clients. And then the second thing is, when you work with us, there are no long term contracts where month to month on every single contract we’ve ever signed for me 26 years, never had any contract that wouldn’t month, a month. And so because you can find me at any time if I’m not producing. So because of that we play Moneyball with our marketing. And what do I mean by that? So I’m going on a tangent, do you want to know
Scott D Clary 11:02
he’s good? No, no, no, it’s good. I know it all. It’s all the story. The story’s making sense. And I think it’s why you’re so successful. But I, I am curious, when you’re playing Moneyball with marketing, when you have so many, like you have so many factors that impact marketing, including things that are not uncontrollable, right, doesn’t matter how data driven you are, especially
Phillip Stutts 11:18
Correct lines, but how quickly you pivot in those moments is the key to the whole thing. And if you play Moneyball, you know, those moments are coming and you pivot out immediately. So what do I mean by that? So what did I do, I went out, and made a bet. Like all good entrepreneurs, I made a bet on me. But the bet was this, I partnered with the largest data collection and analytics and AI company in America. And in our database, we have 240 million American consumers, 550 million connected devices. We’re tracking 10 billion online purchasing decisions every day and a trillion searches. And so I can literally tell you everything you’ve ever wanted to know about your customer or client, because I can IP target them and, and find out what they’re searching for what they’re buying, I can tell you their top three values and like I can tell you, their social media platforms they’re on in chronological order. Wouldn’t that be nice if you were looking for understand your customer client base, before you go and spend a bunch of money on a social media platform, if all of a sudden you knew I know exactly where they are? And in order, we started working with this data company, we were working with them when fortune 200 clients, and that was the data report we would produce for these fortune 200 companies got we would be it would cost about 200 $250,000 for one report, right? So I went to the data company, and I said small businesses, startups, everybody should be using this. These are the same reports that like Amazon and Disney and Hershey’s and TurboTax and Altria, and an DaVita dialysis at some disease or fortune 200 companies, all using this exact data base and using these data analytics tools. And I said, I think, you know, small business, and startups need us. And they said, Okay, well, you pay us a licensing fee of a half a million dollars a year and you can have it you can charge what you want. So I do, I wrote that check struck that check that bet everything on me on that, because I wanted to be build a marketing firm that focused on data and analytics, not on good feelings and hot hot trends. So let me tell you what I mean by that. I’ll tell you a story. We work at the Shark Tank company. They do $20 million in revenue a year. And when they came to us, they said they were spending 85% of their marketing dollars on Facebook. And so we took their customer base, we overlaid it online with our data. And we found out that Facebook was the number five performing platform for this company, with their customers and their potential customers. Number five, the number one social media platform was Pinterest. And they had never spent $1 on Pinterest. Because women had gotten into the market, gotten back into the marketplace. They weren’t going into an office and they needed to buy this is an office chair company, sorry. And they wanted to buy office chairs for their home. And they were spending all of this money and doing okay, but they didn’t realize that they could double their business. If they just refocused their budget and allocated their budget based on where their customers were and what their customers wanted, rather than them guessing. The problem was the marketing or the sorry, the the company that hired us to do this the certain company, they had a marketing agency that they had hired that only did Facebook ads. So tell me this, is that marketing agency ever going to tell the business owner that Facebook is the fourth or fifth performing platform? Right, right. I’m screen agnostic, I’m platform agnostic. I find sometimes the clients that direct mail is more important than digital media. So where am I going to direct my clients? I’m going to direct them into where the data tells us to go. And then we optimize those that performance every single day. De we work with them. So when the when things happen, like you said earlier, which was a great point, when when something happens in the platforms, or people get D platform or trends change or things like that, we’re on top of it immediately. And we can pivot them out of that, because we’re on top of that we know what’s going on. We know what their customers are doing. And so for us, that’s like a little glimpse in how we look at it. But I just kind of want to kind of lay that out.
Scott D Clary 15:25
I just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today’s episode, Shopify, and don’t you love that sound as a sound of another sale on Shopify be all in one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business you Shopify gives entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big businesses, so upstarts startups, and established businesses alike can sell everywhere synchronize online and offline sales activity, and effortlessly Stay informed you can not only sell your product, but you can reach customers online and across social media networks. With an ever growing suite of channel integrations and apps including Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, Pinterest and more. You can gain insights as you grow and detailed reporting of conversion rates, profit margins, and beyond whatever you need to track Shopify contract for you. And remember Shopify was built to liberate commerce for entrepreneurs and big businesses like Shopify is tirelessly reinventing tools of growth and scale for over 1.7 million businesses of 1.7 million businesses trust Shopify. To help them organize their online and synchronize with their offline sales. You should be able to use it for your business as well connect with your customers drive sales, manage your day to day, accept all major payment methods and integrate with any third party app you could possibly think of. If you want to try out Shopify right now go to shopify.com/success story that’s all lowercase for a free 14 day trial and get full access to Shopify, his entire suite of features grow your business with Shopify today, go to shopify.com/success story right now, remember, success story is all lowercase. That shopify.com/success story. I love it, it makes a lot of sense. And I’m just going to challenge on one more point with with that. So when you when you’re platform agnostic, logically, you go into the data and you figure out what works like it just makes a lot of sense. And I know a lot of marketing agencies don’t do that, because they have their specialists in each platform, right? And that’s what they sort of push you towards. But the reason they do that is because it’s hard to have the best practices across every platform. So how do you have that? You say you want to go into Pinterest? You just hire the best in every platform? Are you on tick tock Pinterest, YouTube ads, Facebook, all that?
Phillip Stutts 17:45
Yeah, we have an internal team that knows how to focus on those platforms. Now, if the client like is a fortune 200 client, and they want to get you know, they want to you know, they want to spend a lot of money on millions, then yeah, I can I have deals with almost, you know, 1000 different marketing agencies that specifically focus on certain platforms. And we can partner with them on those. But yeah, that’s how we would look at, you know, like, here’s an example, when we worked with a background check company. They’re one of the top in America. And they came to us, and they said, Hey, we want you guys to do your marketing. But we’ve had this marketing agency for three years, we just get rid of them. We want you to look at all of our data, they they they work with, like the big fast food chains, because there’s such a crazy labor turnover, they have to do background checks on people. And so they said, Man, we one of the things we all said is we audit everything they’ve ever they do in their entire marketing systems, figure out what’s working, and what’s not like where their inefficiencies are. And one of the things we found with them was that Google had changed some rules on them about three years ago on how keywords and Google ads were running. And their marketing agency didn’t know that the rules had changed, and neither did the company’s internal marketing team. And when we looked at them, we found out they were spending $15,000 a month to bid against their own keywords. They were bidding up, they were bidding on multiple keywords, but they were bidding against each other. And they didn’t know that they were doing that. And they’ve been doing it for three years for a lot of money, a lot of money, right? And so what I’m what I focus on first is eliminating the dumb tax that businesses are paying in marketing, by figuring out how the efficiencies work better. And then we go in and look at the data. And figure out first of all, what platforms you want to be on should be on how you should be allocating your budgets more efficiently, like a Moneyball approach. So I’m not saying you shouldn’t spend money on Facebook, if you’re that, that chair company I was telling you about. I’m saying how much of your allocation of your budget should it be? Right. And then the last part is the messaging and the creative You better in a, you know, Forbes has this stat out right now, we are seeing up to 10,000 ads a day online and offline 10,000 ads a day, online and offline, per day each person? So are you breaking through the clutter with your ads? Or are you one of 10,000 that no one’s paying attention to? And so you use the data to find out what is going to ring the bell of that customer. And then you make creative in messaging that makes them pop through the screen or the page or whatever it is to say, what is that? And they want to know more? And they want to click through? And that’s the key the whole thing,
Scott D Clary 20:43
Do you? Do you pull over any learnings from when you mark it? Like I know, a very data driven approach is probably very important, obviously in political marketing. But are there any other key lessons that you found after years in political marketing that you can pull into consumer marketing, marketing, b2b b2c, that are like hyper relevant that the average marketer may not think of?
Phillip Stutts 21:02
Well, so I have this five step we call the undefeated marking system, right? It’s the name of the book, too. But um, yes, so two things that really stand out for me, when the politician comes to me and says, Hey, I want to run for the United States Senate in the state of Florida. First thing I do is I say, Hey, I sit down and say, What do you want? Let’s just say, you know, she sits down and I say, what do you what do you believe in? What do you want to run on. And inevitably, the egotistical politician will give you like, 25 things, right, and you’re like, I No one wants to 25 things, but I appreciate that. But here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to go in survey. And it’s in, by the way, much more complicated than this. But for the brevity of this podcast, I’m going to go survey these customer art, sorry, these voters in the state. And I’m going to figure out if the 25 policy issues you think are the most important, I’m going to figure out for them, what’s the top one or two, that when I say one to two, I mean, it will get you to election victory, if you run on those two issues. Now, for the other 23 issues, probably not going to talk about too much. But for those one or two, that’s all we’re gonna focus on. Because it’s an alignment between the politician believes in in the voter. And we know that those issues are so important to that voter, that they would vote for an unknown or even an unsavory candidate. And so the point I’m trying to make is, I’m obsessed. I love the politician, but I’m obsessed with the voter. And the translation is I love businesses, and I love business owners, I’m one of them. But I’m obsessed with the customer, or the client obsessed. I’m their advocate for that company that hires me. And that’s how I look at it. And that’s for me, I’ve always thought that. And I think that’s what makes us a lot different than most marketing agencies. The other, it sounds like most marketing agencies do what I’m about to say, but they do it wrong. And that is testing messages. So all marking will tell you, Scott, like, hey, we test messages. Yeah, we test that. But they’re typically making those up in a brainstorm session around a conference room table, hey, let’s say this, let’s say these 10 things, let’s go test it. I’m only pulling the messages out of the data. And then I’m going to test those to see which one right we already know that 10 messages from the data will work, but which one rises to the top? So let me give you an example. So please know, the story about and when I got a disclaimer. The disclaimer is this. I am not here to talk about left or right. I’m not here to talk about Democrats, Republicans are woke canceled culture or Trump like and Trump in the sense of campaigns and stuff. All right. But I’m going to use an example what the Trump campaign did in 2020 2016. That was brilliant. They followed this undefeated marketing system because all politicians follow it. And when they got to the testing phase, they tested what they found that the data and they would, they would they would test one message 162 different ways. 162 different versions of one message, they’d have a green background and red background, they have a man in the atom, women in the eye, they’d have different font sizes, they’d have fonts in the right corner, the left corner, they did 162 different versions. And ultimately, they knew the message of work, they just didn’t know which how to optimize that message the best. And so they went out and ultimately, they found eight or nine messages that blew through the roof and they had no idea why. But with before they went out and spent a lot of money on their marketing dollars to win over voters. They now know, these eight or nine different ad concepts are going to work and go blow through the roof. Instead of throwing all 162 up or using one of those ads wouldn’t have worked as best. They optimized based on data they optimize tested and put it out there. So The difference in what translates is that we do testing based on what the data tells us, not arbitrary brainstorm sessions around a conference room table, which is what 99% Of a lot of marketers do.
Scott D Clary 25:13
So let’s take a second and thank the sponsor of today’s episode truebill. So let me ask you a question. How often have you signed up for a free trial, and then it converted into a paid subscription, and you forgot to cancel it? Or how often have you just not been able to cancel something because the process to cancel that particular, you know, monthly service is just horrible and painful, and they make you jump through hoops? True bill is solving this for you true bill is letting you fight back against scammy subscription services. truebill is a new app that helps you identify and stop paying for subscriptions that you don’t need, you don’t want or you simply forgot about. On average, people save roughly $720 per year with true bill. And it’s honestly because companies make subscriptions difficult to cancel. True Bill makes it incredibly simple. You just link your accounts a true bill, and they cancel everything unwanted with a single click. And if something doesn’t cancel automatically, they actually have a concierge service that will follow up and cancel it for you so that you don’t have to true Bill has over 2 million active users. And they saved people over $100 million. I used it myself, I saved about 578 bucks. But that’s just because I spent so much time in the past having to go back and cancel. I’m sure if I knew about them two, three years ago, it could have saved me like 1000s of dollars by now. So stop letting CEOs and bad businesses get rich off you being unable or just forgetting to cancel. Don’t fall for subscription scams start canceling today with true bill at truebill.com/success. Story. Go right now. True build.com/success story. That’s true. build.com/su cc ESS St. Roi. It could save you 1000s a year. That’s true Bill comm slash success story take control of your subscriptions. And what’s the easiest way to test? So is it talking to customers jumping on calls? Is it running different creatives on different platforms? What’s your record
Phillip Stutts 27:15
running creatives on different platforms? Okay, that’s the best low cost. Yeah, the other part of this is in politics, not everybody’s a self funding candidate, like people, most candidates start at zero. And so we do low cost testing, usually motion graphic or banner, because if you’re if you click through a banner, that means that message is really going to work. Nobody clicks the banners, right? That’s, that’s, yeah, so if you do low cost banner ads that don’t cost much money, you can do a lot of them really cheap. And you can ultimately find what messages are going to click through because again, they’re clicking through our banner, that message is going to resonate, and you know it.
Scott D Clary 27:56
One of the one of the themes in your book, or one of the things that sort of pulled out was the your, like your marketing agency you’re working with should be working towards working themselves out of a job at some point. But what does that actually mean? Does that mean that you’re actually trying to when you work with companies, are you trying to eventually exit and let them run on their own? Or is it just that’s the mindset you have to have?
Phillip Stutts 28:18
Yeah, it’s a mindset. It’s like, do you ever really think you’re gonna retire at 65? Like, you know, but, you know, the mindset is, hey, you know, you’re working towards an exit, but doesn’t mean you’re ever gonna stop. Right? So what I mean by that is, your intention should be to create a loyal fan base, a loyal customer base, you should do so much for them and provide so much value and over and over and over again, that they become so loyal to you that they wouldn’t work with anybody else. And or buy products from anybody else. And like an example of that is Yeti. them right there. Yeah, the frickin coolers people. Oh,
Scott D Clary 28:58
cool. There’s not the mic. Sorry.
Phillip Stutts 29:00
No, no, I got a Yeti mic right now. But, uh, no, I don’t know. Blue mic. But anyway, a YETI Coolers. People put their stupid logo on a hat and wear it proudly. They put the bumper stickers on cars. I mean, I’m drinking out of a out of a yeti right now. Like, I mean, people are obsessed with this company. Right? Does it mean Yeti doesn’t market anymore? No. But they they make so much damn money because of their loyal customer base. Like, here’s another one. No one has ever gotten a tattoo on their arm of a Honda motorcycle. But I have a Harley. Yeah. Right. And shouldn’t that be the aspirational way? You look at your marketing, like that’s my whole point. It’s aspirational to what you’re trying to achieve? Because you’re gonna say you’re gonna make 10 times more money if you have that kind of loyalty. customer base or client base.
Scott D Clary 30:02
Another another point, compare tising. What does that mean? Compare tising going negative? Yeah, so I’ve never heard that term before I,
Phillip Stutts 30:13
I made up the term, I made one word. That’s why cause I thought I was
Scott D Clary 30:17
like, Shit, I really missed the, like, marketing 101 definition.
Phillip Stutts 30:22
So I wrote,I’ve written two books, the first book was called Fire them now, right? And I wrote a whole chapter in the book called going negative on your, on your competition. And it’s basically taking the concept of how in political campaigns, we go negative on our, on our opponents, and then taking over to, to the corporate world, but I screwed up. Because no business owner likes the term going negative. They’re like, Oh, that’s, that’s gonna hurt my business. I can’t do something like that. And I went, Oh, I have a branding problem. So I it’s not what I mean, you know? And I’m going to define it and saying, so I said, Well, hold on, how do I rebrand this, because my intention and their perception are two different things. And so I said, Well, it’s just comparative advertising. You know what, I’m gonna just coined the term compare enticing? I got it, right. So it doesn’t mean you take a sledgehammer to your competition, and eliminate and piss off 50% of your market. That’s what we do in politics, you know, all you have to do is get 51% of market, we win the race, right? It doesn’t matter, I can piss off 49% Doesn’t matter. Right? You can’t do that. In the corporate world. You can’t do that if you’re running a company. But the most successful ads in the advertising world right now are compare enticing ads, there’s no doubt, and you must do it, there’s an art to it, you must do it in a way that draws distinction pisses off no one and drives complete loyalty to your product or service. And so it’s in my third book is going to be called compared comparing sizing, because we do this with all of our clients. And the number one ads we ever run on for them are compared to like when I’m saying the number one performance ads are compared to using it. So let me give an example what that means. So we work with an apparel company. And they’re their competitor to Lululemon. Alright, so they shirts, tees, sweats, things like that. And I said, ask them who their competition was. They said, it’s these cheap, knockoff companies. I mean, that cheap knockoff, T shirts, sweats, tees, companies like Nike, Under Armour, you know, they just can bottom the market out the drive is nuts, when we looked at their data, so we ran what we call this Customer Insights report. And we found out that something like 82% of their customers hated cheap sportswear. That’s why they were their customers. They liked high end expensive, comfortable sweats, tees, all that kind of stuff. And so I said, I have an enemy. Let’s go. And so we built we ran a bunch of ads for them. But the number one performing ad we ever ran in the history of their company among men, was a compare testing ad. And it said, don’t buy your clothes from a shoe company. And then the tagline said, just don’t do it.
Scott D Clary 33:20
Got it. Just don’t do it. That’s funny. All right,
Phillip Stutts 33:24
good. So you’re smiling. Right? Are you just is this offend your sensibilities?
Scott D Clary 33:29
It does not offend my sensibilities? No, it does not. It’s clever. It’s clever. It’s like, Uh huh.
Phillip Stutts 33:35
And I’m not getting I’m not getting people to no one buys because they saw that ad. But they’re curious. And they go Hold on, what is this? And they click on it. And then they start that journey as a customer, right? And it was the number one performing ad we ever ran for them, among men. And that was because first of all, it made you smile. Second of all, it drew a distinction because in their subconscious brain, they go, Yeah, I don’t like cheap clothes either. That’s me. It speaks to me. Right? So it draws a distinction. It sticks out in a land of 10,000 ads a day. And it draws loyalty because the lawyer theory they go Yeah, that’s me. I’m that too. I’m loyal to that. We did a we worked with a, a food and supplement company, nine figure spoon supplement company. And when we looked at their data, we found out that 62% of their market hated soda. This is what the data told us. Now, how would you know that? Like it makes sense. But how would you know that? We also found out that 50% of their customers we’re talking millions of customers were vegan veggie considered themselves vegan vegetarian. So we ran a lot of ads. We also ran a lot of ads on other day things we found in the data. But the top two performing ads we ever ran for them were one the vegan vegetarian had that made sense because half the market was eating vegan vegetarian, but the number one ad ever ran for them in the number one ad they ever had in the history of their company was a compared testing ad, it was an anti soda ad. And that particular ad performed to x click through rate better than the number two vegan vegetarian had not the other ones that we tested. The number two ad it was a 2x on click through rates and a 20% higher conversion over the number two performing ad. Why? Because the customer hates soda. And their marketplace doesn’t like soda. And if you saw that ad, and you love soda, you’re not really their customers. So they didn’t give two shits about that. And so they people saw it, they go Yeah, I hate soda, I want healthier, you know, sport drink or healthier drink, protein drink, and then they click through the ad and then 20% higher than the the second highest performing and we ran, they you know, we got conversions on so I could go on and on for days. But we’ve done compare tising now we we tell every client that works with us, they are going to have to run some sort of compare testing, they have to prove it, you know, but we don’t, we’re never gonna offend anybody. But we know they work. And in a land of 10,000 ads a day, you know, you got to break through the clutter and compare tising is the number one tactic to do.
Scott D Clary 36:20
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Phillip Stutts 38:35
But I’ve been Listen, I’ve made 26 appearances on ESPN.
Scott D Clary 38:39
I know. So my question and more just like you, how do you decide as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, as somebody who has been highly successful? Where do you decide to focus your energy? What’s relevant and important for you now in your life, because
Phillip Stutts 38:56
I’m in a job. I mean, I’m all in on my company.
Scott D Clary 39:00
I know. But I mean, other things that are also important to you. And I just want to understand, like, Why do you put these things out into the world? Why is that important for you as somebody who is big on marketing, and you speak about marketing a lot, but then you also go into these other topics?
Phillip Stutts 39:15
talk politics, I’ll
Scott D Clary 39:16
talk health, and I’ll tell you, it’s part of it’s part of who you are. And I’m curious why.
Phillip Stutts 39:20
Yeah, I’m an add kid. Let’s go round back to that first question. And I want to if I find it fun, and exciting and different. I’m kind of curious about it. Like in the last since the pandemic, I’ve been become obsessed with hunting. And now I’m hunting like crazy everywhere. And I’m 47 years old, never hunted before but you know, just got done with an elk coming out in Colorado. And planning hunts in the next 10 years. And I’m taking tons of classes and self defense classes and gun classes and I’m buying you know, fire arms right now. Because I want to learn that skill. I want to learn how to be a better shooter. I want to understand my gun, I want to understand where it comes from, I want to understand my scopes. I just kind of get obsessed with things. And then I pull my energies. And then all of a sudden I go, Oh, shit, there’s a vulnerable, I guess, I have a good. Here’s my one skill that I don’t have many. But this is one. I typically when I go all in on things, I find the lane Less Traveled within them. And then I talk about them. And that gets attention because people go, Oh, yeah, you’re not talking about that. No one’s talked about that before. So like the political guy that does corporate marketing, or I was on ESPN talking about how college players were going to get paid, but which is now what’s happening in college football. But I actually saw this two and a half years ago, and brought it to ESPN. And they said, Well, why don’t you just come on and talk about it. And then I’ve been formed into one of the experts on it. I have no background in that what I said no one’s this is going to change everything for this sport, and no one’s talking about it. And you know, I just for background of your listeners, I have what doctors say is an incurable esophageal disease. And so I went all in and decided as an entrepreneur, I would find a cure to my disease in five years, even though the Mayo Clinic where I was being treated laughed at me when I suggested such a thing. And there’s no research behind a cure to this disease that I have. And no one was doing much of anything. And then four years and nine months later, I haven’t cured my disease, but I’m the first person in human history that’s ever improved their symptoms with the disease. And that’s never happened before. It’s a long story. But I just wanted to go all in and I find the lane that no one goes on. And then I do all the hard work, which really sucks, because I get excited. And then I think it’s gonna be a lot easier than it is and then it isn’t, and then I’m committed.
Scott D Clary 41:58
Do you think not? And also, like, do you think I guess my mind my, my thought was, when you constantly just take on these new things? Do you think that just makes you that much more? I don’t know. Just just more competitive in the in the things that you’re already doing when you’re forcing yourself to upskill all the time, learn new shit, just redo the thing again, like not like major things, you’re starting a new agency. You’re just going down a road figuring stuff out, I can only imagine like, there’s some sort of psychological benefit. Yeah, I’ll
Phillip Stutts 42:32
tell you what it is. Because here’s another thing I’ve gone in on on psychedelic drugs.
Scott D Clary 42:36
Phillip Stutts 42:38
Yeah, therapeutic purposes.
Scott D Clary 42:39
I’ve heard a lot of that.
Phillip Stutts 42:40
And I’ve done MDMA. I’ve done MDMA, with LSD. And I’ve done it with a therapist, I’ve done one with my wife in the room with me with a blindfold on laying on a sofa, and you ultimately come to figure out you, you basically peel the layers of your of your subconscious, of all the things that drive you. You know, I now know that anytime I’m upset or angry or frustrated, that’s all rooted back in the trauma of my own life in my own childhood. And when you have, when you allow yourself to say that it’s not anybody else’s fault, it all comes back to me. There’s a responsibility there. And part of my trauma is the feeling what I mean, to be honest, the trauma that I’ve discovered and uncovered through all the psychedelic work was just the feeling of mass rejection from my childhood, massive rejection on every level on every front and every form you can imagine. It’s also I’m a really good entrepreneur, because I dealt with so much rejection early in my life that rejection, it it bothers me subconsciously, but it doesn’t bother me consciously. That makes sense. Like I can have failure upon failure upon failure, and I’m not going to stop I’m committed all the way through because I’m going to overcome that rejection of failure. But it’s also my kryptonite to it’s where I you know, struggle the most if I get frustrated or angry. It’s because I felt rejected somehow. And I’ve been lash out at someone else over that, you know, and so and then you go, Fuck, it wasn’t their problem. It wasn’t their fault. Maybe they made a big mistake, but my reaction to that is rooted in my trauma. And so for me, I haven’t got I don’t I’m not competitive at all. I’m like, the least competitive person. I’m competitive with me. That’s it. I have no competitive bone what so I can go play golf with my friends and they want to bet they want to I don’t give two shits. If I lose, like it drives them nuts. It doesn’t bother me. I don’t care. I don’t have any competitive bone with anybody else other than just me. I am the most competitive human being on Earth in my world
Scott D Clary 44:58
with myself which Is all that really matters at the end of the day anyway, that’s all you can I
Phillip Stutts 45:02
guess, I don’t know. It’s just kind of my wiring.
Scott D Clary 45:07
When you when, when you were like using some of these, like, I don’t know, I guess just drugs like, but you’re using them to uncover different parts of your psyche and just be more self aware. Do you have also heard this as well. So I’m not sure if you’ve ever done this, but I hear that like micro dosing for creativity is a very popular thing now. But I have no I have no experience with this. But I hear like CEOs do it and whatnot. So is that something that you’ve you found when you when you tried these outer?
Phillip Stutts 45:33
You know, I had the choice to make you know, what was best? Do I want to follow what everybody else is doing? Or do I want to just take it one step at a time and do what’s best for me, and I not opposed to microdosing. But for me right now, it’s just not what I want to do. Some people I know, do psychedelics with therapists once a month, I mean, massive amounts of MDMA or psilocybin, which is mushrooms or LSD, or, you know, there’s a host of other I mean, there’s like 30 different things you can try. And I’m not that way, I usually do one session for five hours. And then I spend a year integrating it with a therapy with a therapist talk therapy. And in integrating everything I discovered in that session, it just takes me more time. I’m more methodical on it. And so for me, that’s just my journey, what my journey is different than other people’s. And the last thing I want to do is go well, that guy did it this way. So I should do it this way like that? I do. I’ve done that plenty in my life. And I’m trying to be more conscious of the fact that no, I’m just gonna listen to myself and follow my own path.
Scott D Clary 46:41
I just want to take a second to thank the sponsor of today’s episode HubSpot. Now, you may have heard me speak about leveling up in the past how we can level up our careers or businesses or customer experience. I wanted to take a minute and focus on that last because when we level up our customers experiences, we transform our customers into evangelists and help our business and our careers grow like crazy with new features dedicated to helping your sales teams improve your customer experience, HubSpot is on a mission to help millions of companies grow better starting with yours. Conversation intelligence tools help your teams get real time insights into calls with automatic recording transcription and call analysis with more visibility into customer conversations, coaching and customer feedback becomes that much easier, easy share meeting links. Let customers see availability and book meetings for you all from the HubSpot platform. This cuts out endless cycles of scheduling email, learn more about how you can transform your customer experience with a HubSpot CRM firstname.lastname@example.org. I want to ask a couple rapid fire I always do at the end to close these out. But before we pivot, what’s next for you? You’re speaking just briefly before we started, like you’re going to try and ramp up build your own brand. But really what is next outside of just pushing stuff out onto social, there’s probably a plan.
Phillip Stutts 48:02
Yeah, I mean, I own five different companies. I’m running one of them right now, I’d like to be in my own holding company and managing all of my companies from that point. And that’s sort of the next, you know, two years where I’m moving towards, and also building my brand out a little bit more. And frankly, I have one, I have a nine year old. And I’d like to spend more time with my family. I’ve got nine more years for my daughter goes off to college, and I want to be a better husband and father. And part of that is relinquishing that time, I’ve put so much into my own businesses, to make sure I have a more balanced lifestyle.
Scott D Clary 48:43
Very good. Where do people find you? What’s the best social website people can go reach out?
Phillip Stutts 48:49
Yeah, a couple different things. If you’re you can go to Philip stutz.com. I’m sure you’ll spell it properly in the shownotes. But if you’re like curious on how we look at data for your own company, we do a free data assessment. And basically, it’s 30 Free 30 minute call with my team, they’ll tell they’ll you’ll tell them like what your customer base is like. And they’ll tell you how we’re, you know if we have how our data would match and look at that. And then you can decide if that’s something you want to undergo and work with us on. But I have my own podcast, the undefeated Marketing Podcast where we give free marketing tips and value out to business owners. I also write every two weeks to my subscriber list. And that’s again at Philip stutts.com.
Scott D Clary 49:29
For people listening, what’s the type of company that you would work with? Is there a certain stage certain revenue size headcount, or is it any
Phillip Stutts 49:36
committed versus interested?
Scott D Clary 49:39
Alright, that’s good. I like that.
Phillip Stutts 49:40
I like committed business owners. I mean, we work with startup companies right now that don’t have a ton of money, but they’re like, look, we’re in this thing to build this for 10 years and we need a partner to build us for 10 years. What I don’t want is a business owner that chases shiny objects until the next shiny object passes through by their eyes and they move on like I’m in. I like working with committed business owners, whether they’re fortune 200, or whether they’re startups or small businesses.
Scott D Clary 50:07
Okay, very good. All right, let’s do some rapid fire. Biggest challenge you’ve overcome in your personal and professional life. What was it had you overcome it
Phillip Stutts 50:17
being a horrible human being in person and utilizing therapy and psychedelics, to I mean, I was heading towards broken businesses, broken marriage and broken family, eight years ago, and working and never, I’m not solved any problems, but I’m 1000 times further than I was in working every single day, to be a better person in ultimately, Scott, and this is rapid fire. It’s learning to love myself. Something I did not allow myself for at least 45 years to even think about the moral of myself, the better I am as a leader, the better as a husband and father. And learning to love myself is one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to commit to. But just like everything else, I’m really all in on it right now. I’m proud of them.
Scott D Clary 51:13
If you had to choose one person, obviously, there’s been many, but one person’s had an incredible impact on your life. Who was it? What did they teach you? How do they help?
Phillip Stutts 51:20
You don’t have to be my wife. I don’t even mean there’s a million people. There are no self made men or women. Right? Well, there’s an army of people that have helped us along the way. But my wife wasn’t going to stand and take, you know, the way I used to be. And she stood up and said, you know, you got to figure this out. And she’s my greatest resource. I want to kill her half the time. And she wants to kill me half the time. But the love and the bond that we have is beyond words, and I wouldn’t be where I am today without her.
Scott D Clary 51:53
Your favorite source to learn or grow podcast book, Audible, something you’ve checked out lately, somebody still read or listened to?
Phillip Stutts 52:00
Jay anything but James L teacher, if you know who James Altucher is, he wrote the foreword to my new book. I’ve I think I’m the most I’ve been on his show more than any other guests. I’ve been on about 11 times. But he’s just the smartest, nicest, kindest person and I learn everything. I learn something every time I listen to him. I think Jay Abraham is a mentor of mine is another great one. Tony Robbins, obviously if you’re starting on step one, I think Tony is probably the number one for starting at step one is the best arrows. And then one last and sorry, there’s a guy that no one knows. He’s not a big influencer go Google. And he’s the smartest business consultant coach that has ever lived. And the reason being is that he made $100 million, lost it all and and made it all back. And he teaches right now what he teaches is not how to Tenex your business, but how never to lose your any of your money. And his name’s Keith Cunningham. And that’s the greatest person I’ve ever worked with on the business side.
Scott D Clary 53:04
Amazing. Okay. If you could tell your 20 year old self one thing, what would it be?
Phillip Stutts 53:11
Get ready. Got a hell of a journey. And no regrets. And you got out you got a heart. You know, there’s a great quote. I can’t think of the guy who said that. But it’s easy choices, hard life hard choices, easy life. And I would that’s what I would tell that 20 year old
Scott D Clary 53:32
and last I was looking up that quote I know that quote too, but I can’t remember jersey, something like jersey, drag rec Jersey Greg Rec. I think it was in a TEDx. He said it anyway. That’s good. And last question, what does success mean to you?
Phillip Stutts 53:49
Balance and the love of my family.
Scott D Clary 53:54
Amazing. That’s all I got.